Forum: Zmienne wiatry / changing winds

Post deleted because ± it contain to much copyrighted details🤷‍♂️

Andrzej M. here. Chose to go with English. @Dariusz_Klimek I ask you: please do not publish the method. Seeds, addresses, commands, nothing. Please do not make the same mistake I did by sharing this. The most important reason not to publish anything is the fact that the method contains specifics of the game's internals. The method itself works, but it's crappy to say the least. (What seemed fine at the time) Enough to share with a few DSJ friends, not enough to be published. Exposing seed values, any commands etc is too much. Correlation between system clock and randomness usually exists in such games. It could be done better, so maybe it would be better to create a "cleaner" method? Or to finish/polish this one? There's many people much better than me in the field of reverse engineering, some I've reached out to help me with my struggle. For the same reason I've never published AI code. The framework is based on Dosbox, Dosbox is licensed as LGPL if I remember correctly. I'm not a lawyer but if I send a binary file to someone, they could ask me to send the source code too. And there are again the game's internals, so sending the AI binary is a no go. Same for DSJ2 online, before Jussi published the Android version I had worked on an online version, but not based on Dosbox. I had some proof of concept of the online gaming as an external app (not Dosbox-based not be constrained to publish internals one day). Also I don't have the infamous-2003-wind editor recreated, it was mentioned in one of the previous messages. Again, please don't share the details of the game. This is supposed to be the message of this post.

First: I hit the tak button in the poll by accident, I didn't plan to take part in it. Second: Google Translate sucks with polish so Domins and Dariusz comments are gibberish for me... ;) But thx Andrzej for posting in English... Care to share your Email address? Here or on the Mediamond forum via pm (my nick there is Severin if you want to do it in private) I have some follow up questions concerning that method and you'd be the best person to answer them... PS: Alexander Burger is out of the list. He only had 14 jumps because the other ones were blocked automatically because they were way over WR distance...

@grzywa, Ok, I removed too detailed messages. I won't be share details of method - but also i cannot pretend it's not exist. If no one use it - there is no problem, but we got 32 world records archived using it... WR's that other jumpers compare they jumps to, and thinking they will also have winds like in WR's if they will be patient enough. When they cannot. On the issue of not recreating the wind variable editor: You told me you think you know how to recreate it, after 3 to 5 weeks you called me saying: "I managed to recreate this editor, I want you to know that my latest records are jumped without it, but I understand if you don't believe in them".... Back to the method. In retrospect - most likely, we would have done a lot differently, having knowledge we have today in the initial period after your discovery. Well, no one knew how strong advantage. The biggest mistake was publishing these jumps as well as putting them on the list of official records of the game on mediamond.fi They say "if you've said A, you must also say B". Making these jumps public was just such an exclamation of A. Here it is worth emphasizing again: we did not know what it would be like - and by making the first jumps public we entered the road from which it is difficult to turn back. But it happened, and it is what it is. We have WR's that are widely known, Jussi recently said that the game is still selling surprisingly well - although with the 10th anniversary code you can get the same thing for free. The only point of buying your own copy is to compete on mediamond(or just lack of knowledge about 10th anniversary key in some cases) Therefore, the method must be made public, or the records achieved using it must be somehow marked or permanently deleted. "Hill limits" have already been checked by AI - so it's no longer an excuse to use a method giving unfair advantage. Therefore, I would like to ask you to refine this method and make it public. If you think that others will do it better - I would like to ask you to create conditions for them to do so. If everything is to remain completely hidden, and the right people will not be interested in it - the chance that someone will get up in the morning and say "maybe today I will refine Andrzej's method, although I don't even know about it" is close to the chance of a casual player to hit the wind similar to those of the new WR... A situation where seeds are completely shrouded in mystery, and Dominik, to hide it, is forced to give evasive answers to his viewers on YouTube when asked where such wind comes from (in style, it's a matter of good wind searching, it's a 1/1000 wind, etc) creates a very unhealthy situation. This is no different from an athlete who has outclassed previous world records using steroids. And to hide it, he tells people that his secret is to sleep at least 8 hours a day, eliminate certain foods from his diet, and take short breaks every 30 minutes during an exercise session. The end result is that anyone "who wants to be" like this athlete changes their diet, training regime and sleep habits. In other words, it changes a lot, affect people life, make them chasing a rabbit that has no even exist. Due to the lack of effects, frustration arises and such a person devotes a lot of attention and time to fine-tuning completely irrelevant things. This situation ruins the game. It makes from people idiots and eventually leads to abandoning the "dumb game" or calling Dominik a cheater.

@Zeppelin, chill polly is deleted anyway, probably You click yes in moment i was removing it, because there was no Your vote when i do it - admin just need to confirmate of deleting it and it will be gone. Yeap, google translate got big problem to translate Polish to German and Netherland languages, but You dont miss anything in those 2 messages. Hope You download Your 299.03 jump before i delete previus answer(it cointains to much method detail), if no - its on mediamond -> dsj 2 -> replays 👍 Exacly, best to ask Andrzej - always best to taking knowlage from a source, and only think i can give You is to repet what i was told about. But if He won't help, i guess best is to spend some $$ on an old PC, install win 98 on it, and then fly... Or be really patient with dosbox - it still was leting me hit 300.53m on K240, 289.64 on K250, etc. About alex burgger - good. If he was not cheeting, he will send Jussi missing files and will be back on list. If no, good that he is gone.

Concerning Brugger: Jussi wrote that there were many jumps that were MUCH longer than current WRs so I guess they were just jumped with classic wind editor and uploaded anyway but never checked. As for my Australia jump: That was almost 100% certain done with slowdown. By that time I already used slowdown and there are a few times in flight were I correct the flight position to fast for it to be not slowdown. But I didn't even remember that I had such mediocre wind in that jump :D If anyone still has the replay of my 288.64 in Slovenia I'd be grateful, that's probably the jump I'm most proud of... Yeah, I don't really know yet how to proceed from here, but I'll talk to Andrzej what the best option is. Maybe also something like PCem will work but I'll need to know more about virtualization and stuff and if it'll work. And generally, that will always be the problem with games like DSJ, in every version. It's so hard to create a game, where there's no room for man made improvements, whether it's cheats or just shortcuts. It's even worse in DSJ4 with Cheat Engine and stuff. If Jussi ever creates a version where everybody has the same chances, he'll truly have achieved something outstanding.

@Zeppelin, yeap. That's how things go. I ask Jussi to create some new cup mode in dsj 2, with static wind, or for example 3/10 winds to choose, that change during jump - but always in same way. It won"t fix WR list problem, but for online cups (in game with no online mode xD) will be greate to make it "only skill mather" and eliminate lots of shortcuts that not everyone knew. Simply - we jump on K70 this week, on wind nr 3 - it should be unchetable. But he say he not thinking about developing DSJ 2 anymore🤷‍♂️ Maybe if we use some webside, thats collect money for new products, gather couple k of $, he will make dsj2.2🤔 if You will be talking with him You can ask him is there any amount of $ that will make him consider making DSJ 2.2. then we all can do some brain storm and figure out how make this game should work to avoid situations from DSJ 2,3 and 4. Then share with him our ideas + force him to listening by simply "money come if You do it our way"😎 For now DSJ 2 Mobile is only version that no one is doing any system time changes, slowing down, etc - at least no one from dsj2.pl grup. But i think that will change soon or later😔 almoust from day 1 there was some jumps on YT jumped with slowdown, that is no reazon to use in Mobile - because there is a little different of speed by phone, but its like 0.1s on whole jump, not like in PC version where having pentium 100mhz simply not allowing game work with more then ± 40 % of normal speed. Hope some day You will join Us on Mobile👍 About burgger, it could be static wind editor. But from other way - there is no info on mediamond, that after jumping WR there is a need to send .rpl + dsj.ver to jussi...hmm...but nah, what am i saying - he send 32 records, see only 14 is on mediamond and don't even ask jussi why? I guess static wind editor user like You say. Bad luck anyone can do it again - especcialy when now WR's are so much ahead of others, so is no problem jump even over old WR's with editor and send it. I guess then Jussi even if he wish to, will have no chance to check is that jumped in fair way + knowing new WR's lenght, it will be little wired to remove jumps shorter by 1m+😔 I hope Andrzej will help You, but like He say for now method is showing copyrighted things and it cannot be published like this. Maybe there is an option to install windows 98 on some virtuall machine or something? I see on YT there is a lot of tutortial to instal win 98 on virtualbox - not checked them, but it should be eazier way then buy old PC(ports for mouse, monitor, etc was diferent old days- this could bring some trubble that virtual system will let You pass by)

*English below* W końcu jakaś drama na tej stronie. 👍 A trochę bardziej serio, to jako że nie bardzo się znam, to się wypowiem, bardziej jako obserwator i kibic niż aktywny gracz PC-ówki. Z tego, co zrozumiałem, znajomość „seedów” czasowych w połączeniu z metodą Andrzeja daje lepszy dostęp do najbardziej zmiennych wiatrów. Jako że zachowanie się wiatru zależy też jednak od innych czynników, nie gwarantuje to 5+ w locie ani nawet w całej sesji grania. Nadal trzeba liczyć na szczęście, cierpliwość i umiejętności, że jak już powieje, będziemy w stanie to wykorzystać. Raczej nie brzmi to jakoś strasznie, ale przy odpowiednio dużej pracy pewnie jednak nieco zwiększa szanse i zwłaszcza na topowym poziomie ma znaczenie, co potwierdza Darek ze swojego doświadczenia. Udostępniając tylko w wąskim gronie, @grzywa jakby chciał trochę „zjeść ciastko i mieć ciastko”, ale potwierdził, że był to błąd i nie ma co drążyć, każdy je popełnia. Na jego miejscu może postąpiłbym podobnie, bo też cholernie ciekawiłoby mnie, jak to się przełoży na wyniki wyjadaczy. Kwestia wyników na Mediamondzie. Sam gdybym miał WR z tą metodą, gdzie nadal musiałem włożyć mnóstwo pracy w jego zdobycie, pewnie też by mnie kusiło, mimo że początkowo pewnie nie wchodziło to w grę. Tym bardziej, że te poprzednie WR-y ponoć też nie wiadomo, czy takie absolutnie czyste. Pamiętajmy też o pozytywnych aspektach, pobicie rekordu świata sprawiło, że o DSJ2 znowu zrobiło się głośno, co też w jakimś stopniu przełożyło się na popularność i rozwój naszej strony. A propos, może coś na kształt osobnej kategorii w naszym rankingu? W planach mam dodanie wyników AI na pozycjach 0, to może aktualne rekordy na 0,5? Jest też kwestia ew. turniejów PC tutaj, które na pewno kiedyś chciałbym zrobić. Żeby uniknąć ew. nieporozumień, pewnie trzeba byłoby jakichś dodatkowych zasad, ale to jeszcze do przegadania. Wierzę, że da się osiągnąć zadowalające warunki, tak by liczyła się przede wszystkim dobra zabawa i przyjemność ze skakania. Ogółem nic odkrywczego z mojej strony, starałem się każdego po części zrozumieć. @Zeppelin to chyba dobrze podsumował, że trudno o grę, w której każdy będzie miał całkowicie te same szanse. Na mobilu też tego w pewnym stopniu doświadczamy z uwagi na różnice sprzętowe. Mimo wszystko może jednak uda się wypracować jakieś kompromisy, by każdy był jakoś zadowolony? Dla porządku wydzielę dyskusję. Eng: We finally got a drama on this website. 👍 And a little more seriously, as I likely don't know too much about the issue, I'll say it more as an observer than an active PC player. From what I understood, knowledge of time "seeds" combined with Andrzej's method gives better access to the most changing winds. However, as the wind behavior depends on other factors as well, it does not guarantee 5+ on the fly or even in the entire gaming session. You still have to count on luck, patience and skill that once you get the strong wind, you'll be able to use it. I think it doesn't sound terrible, but with enough work done, it probably increases the chances a bit and especially at the top level it matters, which is confirmed by Dariusz from his own experience. By sharing it in a small group only, @grzywa likely wanted to "eat a cake and have it too", but he confirmed it was a mistake and there is no point in probing, everyone makes mistakes. If I were in his position, maybe I'd do the same, because I'd also be damn curious to see how it would lead into the results of the best players. The matter of results on Mediamond. If I had a WR with this method, where I still had to put a lot of work into getting it, I'd likely be tempted to do that too, although it probably wasn't an option at first. Especially since the fact that the previous WRs are absolutely clean is supposedly uncertain. We need to also remember about the positive aspects, beating the world record meant that there was a lot of talking about DSJ2 in Poland again, which also led into the popularity and growth of our website in some extent. Btw, maybe something like a separate category in our ranking? I plan to add AI records at 0 positions, so maybe the current records at 0.5? There is also the matter of possible PC tournaments here, which I'd definitely like to organize in someday. To avoid possible misunderstandings, some additional rules would probably be needed, but that's still something to talk about. I believe that it's possible to achieve satisfactory conditions, so that what counts above all is having fun and enjoying jumping. Overall, nothing revealing from me, I just tried to understand everyone somewhat. @Zeppelin likely summed it up well that it's hard to have a game where everyone has a completely the same chance. On mobile, we also experience this to some extent due to device differences. After all, maybe we can do some compromises so that everyone is somehow satisfied? I'll separate the discussion for the sake of it.